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    Bayonetta Origins director explains why that game isn’t 60 FPS (this can reasonably be applied to Paper Mario TTYD as well)



    Bayonetta Origins director explains why that game isn’t 60 FPS (this can reasonably be applied to Paper Mario TTYD as well)

    Posted by Asad_Farooqui

    View 45 Comments

    45 Comments

    2. JLD2503 on

      (The whole thread for people that don’t want to go on Twitter)

      I can empathize with the devs of Paper Mario: TTYD on Switch wrt the whole 30fps vs 60fps situation.

      We tried for a long time to get Cereza and the Lost Demon running at a stable 60fps. (1/7)

    3. thatnitai on

      Bayonetta Origins is a true hidden gem. One of the best games of 2023 easy, it’s amazing. 

      And yes, the visual fidelity is clearly too high to maintain 60, that game is beautiful and nothing else looks like it. 

    5. BeyondThese7702 on

      TLDR: the Switch couldn’t handle it.

      The new model cannot come soon enough. Absolutely 0 reason a GameCube remake shouldn’t be able to run at a stable 60 (in the case of TTYD)

    6. AyoadeNBN on

      I wish Nintendo games had performance modes. Those can be difficult to implement too but damn I’d sacrifice some visual quality for a consistent 60fps, or even an unlocked framerate mode that just gives me the dips. For Paper Mario I really wouldn’t care about drops in fps.

    7. LeBritto on

      At what point did 60fps became important for gamers? I’ve had a shit TV for a very long time and I play switch handheld often, so I often miss on the full potential games have to offer.

      EDIT: not a criticism. Real question, I feel like I’m 10 years behind lol. Suddenly I see people saying that the lack of 60fps is unacceptable and I didn’t see it coming

    8. IrishSpectreN7 on

      I replayed Paper Mario 64 and Origami King last year, and not *once* did I think about the framerate.

      This is a non issue to me. All I can suggest to anyone who cares enough is to either and wait and see if they add a performance mode for the Switch 2 (unlikely) or just emulate the original game.

    9. Naman_Hegde on

      this thread made me realise that reddit mfs really have 0 knowledge about how games even work.

    10. TheSimRacer on

      Obviously different users and all, but it’s interesting that to some here, the visual upgrade doesn’t matter. But when Skyward Sword doubled its framerate, top comments were like “this shit dont look hd” and “I could barely tell this was HD at first” because of the modest visual upgrade outside of being 1080p.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/s/Dh0nQG8Z17

    11. Andromeda98_ on

      I’d much rather have stable 30fps than unstable 60fps, I really don’t understand what people are complaining about.

    12. crunkdunk9 on

      As long as the 30 is a STABLE 30 I’m fine with it, the issue is when it’s an unstable 30.

    14. jumptheguillotine on

      Action/shooter/fighting/racing games all benefit tons from 60fps. Playing at 30 just feels awful, steady or not.

    16. platinumplantain on

      For non-Twitter users, here’s what he said…

      I can empathize with the devs of Paper Mario: TTYD on Switch wrt the whole 30fps vs 60fps situation.

      We tried for a long time to get Cereza and the Lost Demon running at a stable 60fps.

      We were able to maintain 60fps inside the Tír na nÓg stages, but it just wasn’t possible to keep the same visual fidelity and hold 60fps in the forest.

      My choice was either to have an unlocked framerate with frequent dips to 30~50 fps, or cap it and hold a stable 30fps.

      The most difficult part of game dev is making choices about what to prioritize. Everything has a cost, both in terms of dev time to implement it, and in terms of processing time when the game is running…ultimately you simply cannot have everything.

      CatLD may not look visually complex, but there is actually a ton of post-processing going on under the hood: the colours fading in like ink as you move through the world, the shading patterns on objects, the way the world curves to allow you to see further into the distance

      All these visual effects have a processing cost. I felt the picture book look was integral to the overall experience, so it was not worth throwing it away to hit 60fps.

      I imagine the team making Paper Mario faced a similar dilemma.

      It would be one thing if this were an enhanced port of the original game (i.e. the version of Pikmin 1/2 for Switch), but this is a full rebuild of the game.

      I am sure they wanted to use modern techniques to really make the paper aesthetic shine…and these have a cost.

      All I can say for certain is that the team made the choice that they felt would lead to the best overall experience for players.

      I promise you, it was not a decision made lightly or out of “laziness”.

      I missed out on the original, so I’m looking forward to playing it on Switch!

    18. B-Bog on

      I understand the trade-off, it’s just a little disappointing when a remake of a 20-year-old game that is going to be sold at full price runs at a worse framerate than the original.

      Also, why tf does anybody still post on Twitter, let’s leave that garbage platform in the rearview mirror already.

    19. PurpleJudas on

      Gosh, I just love to read someone actually being fair, professional and informed. Even if it comes from the dev himself.

    21. 3dBrunoDog on

      So many people here acting like they know more about optimization than Game developers, smh.

    23. lackofsleipnir on

      I feel like people often forget or just straight up disregard the Switch’s portability.

    24. fendelianer on

      I sympathise with the struggle developers must face with hardware so outdated like the Switch. But my issue is actually reflected by the thread when he mentions “two” options: stable 30 or unstable 50~.

      There’s actually a third option: lower your graphical ambitions. I respect if the studio didn’t want to compromise on their vision. That’s fine, specially again in hardware like the Switch’s.

      I also understand that something like that must be very difficult to change in late development. I just wish they planned for 60FPS as a target from the beginning.

    25. 3WayIntersection on

      I get the switch is underpowered, but 30fps for games like this sounds more than playable provided its stable.

    26. DefinitionStock6122 on

      The good news is the game will probably get a 60fps patch when the Switch 2 launches

    27. ChickenFajita007 on

      I understand their situation, but I still disagree with their choice.

      I would have preferred some sections being gutted visually and kept the 60FPS target.

      At the end of the day, the game absolutely could run at 60, they just prioritized visual fidelity.

    28. TankorSmash on

      The whole thread for people that don’t want to go on Twitter:

      —-

      I can empathize with the devs of Paper Mario: TTYD on Switch wrt the whole 30fps vs 60fps situation.

      We tried for a long time to get Cereza and the Lost Demon running at a stable 60fps. (1/7)

      —

      We were able to maintain 60fps inside the Tír na nÓg stages, but it just wasn’t possible to keep the same visual fidelity and hold 60fps in the forest.

      My choice was either to have an unlocked framerate with frequent dips to 30~50 fps, or cap it and hold a stable 30fps. (2/7)

      —

      The most difficult part of game dev is making choices about what to prioritize. Everything has a cost, both in terms of dev time to implement it, and in terms of processing time when the game is running…ultimately you simply cannot have everything. (3/7)

      —

      CatLD may not look visually complex, but there is actually a ton of post-processing going on under the hood: the colours fading in like ink as you move through the world, the shading patterns on objects, the way the world curves to allow you to see further into the distance (4/7)

      —

      All these visual effects have a processing cost. I felt the picture book look was integral to the overall experience, so it was not worth throwing it away to hit 60fps.

      I imagine the team making Paper Mario faced a similar dilemma. (5/7)

      —

      It would be one thing if this were an enhanced port of the original game (i.e. the version of Pikmin 1/2 for Switch), but this is a full rebuild of the game.

      I am sure they wanted to use modern techniques to really make the paper aesthetic shine…and these have a cost. (6/7)

      —-

      All I an say for certain is that the team made the choice that they felt would lead to the best overall experience for players.

      I promise you, it was not a decision made lightly or out of “laziness”.

      I missed out on the original, so I’m looking forward to playing it on Switch!

    29. Asad_Farooqui on

      Just wanna quickly hop in and say thanks to everyone who’s copy-pasting the post in the replies in case the original tweet gets deleted for whatever reason.

    30. Core711 on

      I think it could still be possible for TTYD to hit 60 fps, but it would most likely require giant amount of time to find techniques to make that work while keeping the same visual fidelity.

    31. LieutenantEntangle on

      Switch is old weak hardware.

      That is why it is 30fps.

      This is always the case.

    32. May_Version1 on

      I’m just waiting for that Switch 2 to play some of these games. I had to drop Tears of the Kingdom as it was making me feel a little sick playing it despite being a fabulous game. I just hope TTYD a game I’ve wanted to play forever and TOTK both run better on the Switch 2 so I can play them how they deserved to be played.

    33. Usual_Vermicelli_961 on

      Watch Nintendo make the Switch 2 “good enough” for a year or two before developers run into these same problems again.

      I have a feeling it will only be 8GB ram, underclocked.

    36. GiJoe98 on

      If the switch 2 is backwards compatible with switch 1 games, and those games get a boost in performance when played on the switch 2, the game is only going to be locked at 30FPS for a year and a half at most.

    37. Chidoribraindev on

      Really missed a trick in doing what we all thought they’d do and make the dock provide some extra processing power. It worked out for them but I have skipped a few games on Switch because they run extremely poorly (fucking Age of Calamity demo was pathetic).

    38. Riomegon on

      Do people really think this is just the original gamecube port that can’t run 60fps? Do they not understand this is a remake and it’s completely built up as a new game hence the current day performance woes?

    39. Weeb_degenerate_ht on

      bummer about the 30fps cap for TTYD tbh. i was expecting 60fps at the minimum given it is an old game now. This makes me reconsider my pre order.

      I know i probably sound whiny but for a sidescroller game i think 60fps is a must in today’s era, vertical scrolling just doesn’t feel smooth at 30fps.

      I don’t expect miracles with the switch hardware but it feel like TTYD should have been 60fps. The original game was. To me this is too much of a downgrade in performance.

      Edit: i have cancelled my pre order. someone else can have it. It just doesn’t sit righ with me to have to pay 80$ cad and objectively losing 50% of the original performance

    40. rico_dorito on

      Is there any reason why it got to be 30 OR 60 FPS? Can’t they choose 40 and lock it there?

    41. Declan_McManus on

      The point that everything is a matter of prioritization, up to and including delaying the game so much for optimizations that another one never gets greenlit again, really is the crux of the matter

    42. Symaxian on

      There is quite a bit of ignorance floating around, the TTYD remake is not a graphically intensive game. There is no reason it cannot run at a locked 60 FPS other than a lack of optimization.

      High paced action game or not, 60 FPS is smoother and provides a better experience than 30 FPS, hands down.

    43. reala728 on

      i really just cant wait until we hit our “visual fidelity” ceiling so this issue can just be over with. its bizarre to me that visuals are a priority over smooth gameplay for so many games these days. i understand it being an issue on switch when it comes to ports, but games designed for the hardware specifically is a different story.

    45. DogHogDJs on

      Nah Taki Udon posted a video recently where he showed with an overclock to the memory and CPU that the Switch can run many games at higher resolutions and refresh rates.

      Nintendo needs to allow people to do this with the Switch 2.

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